Faith Crisis, the Problem- du Jour?

[ 26 ] Comments

by Nick Galieti

With all the news articles and apologetic responses to “faith crisis,” I wonder if this whole faith crisis thing is the “problem-de-jour” with anti-mormon’s/the adversary in trying to bring down the morale and membership of the church or is there really nothing new to this — people of faith always have periods of doubt and in many cases it is just part of spiritual progression?

Is doubting the gospel a fad? Is having a faith crisis a manufactured vehicle that leads to rationalization of sinful practices? Is navigating a faith crisis as necessary step to coming to know Jesus Christ and God the Father as is any covenant or ordinance?

What has been your interaction with this issue?

26 Responses to Faith Crisis, the Problem- du Jour?

  1. Paul says:

    Yes, yes and yes!

    Interesting question. Of course having a high-profile authority in the church go through a NYT-reported faith “crisis” is significant and fosters discussion, but I think in today’s 24-hour news cycle, nothing-is-private world, these inner battles are more often played out in public view, even on a small scale.

    Have I had a faith crisis? Not quite like those we hear so much about today. Oh, as a BYU freshman I confronted many anti-LDS thoughts and questions thanks to a roommate who carried many doubts from his home. We explored those questions together. It ended up being far from a crisis for me, because I found faith in the resolution of the questions. Ultimately, however, he did not, and his was a true crisis, leading him to leave his mission and the church.

    My crises of faith have been different — less about doctrine and more about “why me?” or “why now?” in the face of personal trials and the trials of family members. It was truly faith, as in, “why don’t I have enough to make this go away?” and ultimately learning that I needed my faith not to make the pain go away, but to learn to live with it and through it.

    • Ramona Gordy says:

      “Is navigating a faith crisis as necessary step to coming to know Jesus Christ and God the Father as is any covenant or ordinance?”

      I feel that a “crisis of faith” is a growing pain, so to speak. I used to think that everything that happened to me was one big test, and I had to ace that test and if I didn’t (regardless if it was out of my control to do so) I had failed and would have to go to the end of the “faith” line to start over. It was terribly frustrating for me, and because I did not “continue in prayer” concerning those issues, because I did not trust in the Lord enough, I would become despondent, sometimes bitter and start to “pull away”.

      It is a cycle, that I have been working hard to stop, even as I follow well worn scriptures, “Whoso treasure up my word shall not be deceived…

      Because the very word “crisis” when attached to the word “faith” seems an oxymoron. Crisis implies a lack of order, chaos and confusion, everything flying out of its proper place.
      Whereas faith is described as “the substance or essence or the grounding element, of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen.
      This is a simple “Pollyanna” type of verse isn’t it? And I have thought that and blew it off because I wanted a better remedy. But I go back to these verses because “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
      Line upon line and precept upon precept is the way to lead us out of a “crisis of faith” at least for me.
      Is there a cure for a “Crisis of Faith”, I believe it is Truth. Is it that simple, probably not, but “here a little, there a little…”
      One of the coolest things I have learned is that Jesus comes to us, at the place where we are. He comes to us in our fears and doubts and anger, and he listens and comforts and teaches us.

    • Jeanne says:

      Very nice article and very nice comment Paul.

  2. E says:

    My impression has been that it is “manufactured” in the sense that I don’t think it is anything new or that faith crises are more frequent than they ever have been. I believe in some cases, there may be disaffected members who really like the idea of widespread loss of faith among members of the church and so they see what they are hoping to see because they are looking for it. But activity rates are probably as good as they ever have been in the US.

  3. Liz C says:

    To me, it’s a complex thing. One of the facets I consider include the reality that many churches (not just the LDS) are finding that churchiness and conversion/discipleship are far from the same things, and it’s very possible to be fully active in a church, and 100% dead in conversion. So supporting continual conversion and discipleship for all members really is a bit of a crisis.

    I do think there’s something of a vocal minority that would like everyone to *think* we’re a post-faith nation… that somehow we’ve “evolved” past the need for faith. I think they’re wrong. But if we’re constantly bombarded by media messages that tell us “oh everyone else is falling away” and “we’re past all that faith nonsense”, it’s easier to be lulled away by degrees.

    To a certain degree, I think public demonstration faith-crisis is “fashionable”, in that it seems to be fairly popular to put all those internal musings out on the internet for popular consensus rather than taking the questions to the only One who can answer them. Consensus is never a substitute for conversion, and won’t last.

    And, some people really do feel that the best way to change problems within the cultural side of a church is to foment protest. I don’t necessarily agree with that, myself, though I do see cultural things that could do with a good upgrade or remodel.

    My own personal faith crises are more to do with the tribulations inherent to worshipping with a huge stack of broken people (myself included), rather than with glorified perfect folks. 😀

  4. Paul says:

    Liz, you raise some interesting points, particularly the one about the “allure” of living in a post-faith nation. I think much of Europe has been there for some time, and the US is confronting this issue in interesting ways (witness the changing role of the religious right in politics). But there are other nations in the world that are on completely different arcs in that respect.

    It’s interesting that in my Midwestern US neighborhood, I would say at least half of the families in my subdivision are good church-going folks (and the rest are just good folks…).

    I think there have been some analyses around activity fall-off rates at certain ages, and there’s particular concern around young single adults (either because there are more singles or more disaffection among them; I don’t know enough to know which it is), but my own obseration is that the activity decay rate among young men, for instance (eg, age 12-18) seems about what it’s always been for the past 40 years or so (not that my experience is a statistically valid sample).

  5. MSKeller says:

    That was my first impression too Paul. Yes, yes and YES. We read over and over in the history of the church (both in New and current times) that the rate of belief and disbelief was a constant battle. People are changable. People doubt. People fail and lose faith and regain it and have new experiences that cause both doubt and renewed faith.

    We just hear about it more these days, quicker and in higher quantity simply because the world is flattening. (Getting more accessable).

    Not everyone has the GIFT of faith, so many of us are left with “Lord I believe, help thou my disbelief” (Unbelief)

  6. My own observations among Southern California YSAs are that the numbers of those getting married are decreasing, while the number of divorces are increasing. Additionally, many are actually going less-active. Whereas in the past YSA’s generally fell off the map because of laxity in living the gospel, there does seem to be a huge increase in those going less-active because of doctrinal issues, historical issues, and anti-mormon rhetoric. I hate that what I see plays into the talking points of the church’s antagonists, but there you have it.

    I wish it weren’t so, but I’m a leader in the YSA ward I’ve been in for ten years now and it’s something we’re dealing with. And remarkably, the highest drop-off rates are among teen girls and RM’s.

    So, what’s going on?

    My hypothesis is that there has been a slow burn in the church ever since post WWII intermountain-west culture became the defacto model for LDS families to adopt and conform to. I think, along the way, we have picked up an increasing number of the doctrines of men which we’ve woven into our teachings.

    These doctrinal tares have gone undetected for the most part until, at this time, we’re beginning to see the conflicts springing up in abundance.

  7. Jendoop says:

    I mostly see things the way Aaron does. There is something different about this crisis of faith, and as we’re told in scripture it will be different in the latter days. My husband has said that he wonders if it is the beginning of the sorting of the wheat and tares (both of which are members of the church).

    It seems as though the issues of the day and the combined ineffectiveness of many/most family units contributes to the crisis of faith that are normal parts of faith development. When in the past you had a crisis of faith society supported good morals regardless of your conclusions about religion. Now there is little support from society, when people stray from religion with their questions it leads to darker paths which are more difficult to find their way out of.

    It seems to me that our problems and ineffectiveness gets worse as society falls further from the light. There is a greater gulf in the mists of darkness between the great and spacious building and the tree of life.

    Then children are effected and that leads to issues in subsequent generations. It’s as if the problems of our fathers are piling up on our heads and we can’t keep our gaze focused on Christ with such a weight pulling our heads down. If Lamen and Lemuel’s actions resulted in so much trial and loss of faith for their descendants, what is to come of the children of multitudes of Lamen and Lemuels in our day?

    • If Lamen and Lemuel’s actions resulted in so much trial and loss of faith for their descendants, what is to come of the children of multitudes of Lamen and Lemuels in our day?

      I believe that this very thought—this sort of compounding atrophic apostasy—is when reason behind the change in missionary service. It provides for a decrease in chance that teens between highschool and missions will fall away. It also provides an important focus and unified goal which the church can use to flush out other “grey areas”. And what’s more, it presents the possibility that more RM males will marry RM females by reducing the age gap.

      I struggled when I first got off my mission in dating because 1) the girls my age were generally immature and 2) the returned-misionary women were sufficiently older to make things awkward since they mostly had education and careers FAR ahead of mine.

      Iduno, these are just some of my ideas. I see the recent focus on missionary work as a means to reverse course among YSA’s, and thus the church as a whole.

      • Steve Lowther says:

        Aaron, to me the age of missionaries will not effect the rate in apostasy. I don’t believe the majority of apostasy is due to atrophy. It is the polar opposite. The current hemorrhage of the membership is from people having received unsatisfactory answers to a huge number of very probing questions.

        I know many return missionaries that did manage to complete their missions — the pressure to have served honorably is immense — only to come back disgruntled and questioning. I doubt these people would have lasted longer if they were younger. I seriously doubt many were disaffected because it was difficult to find their mates.

        • With all do respect, Steve, I’m much closer to these things than I assume you are. I’m a returned missionary from a mission where teachings antagonistic to Mormonism were pervasive. I did not come home disaffected or frustrated. I know that does happen, but I’m not sure that’s the norm.

          As for being aware of what precisely makes YSA’s fall away; I believe I’m in a much better position to posit on this. I’m an elders quorum president in a YSA ward which I’ve been attending for nine years. Difficulty in finding marriage partners is a huge issue for those I have known and those I currently serve. The struggle of Ideal vs. Reality is a difficult one, and in my experience, this initiates most of the faith crisis’ among the YSA’s I’ve known.

  8. Steve Lowther says:

    One of the things those of us disaffected from the Church come to expect is a very strong denial mechanism from members. We are subjected to unfair deprecations and condescending insinuation that disaffected members are spiritually lazy or want to sin. We see that in the very remarks here denying there is any real crisis at all!

    The crisis is very real. We must deal with embarrassing history of racism in the Journal of Discourses explaining everyone was racist back then, even the Lord’s inspired prophets as if there were no abolition movement or quotes of Church leaders criticizing it!

    We deal with phenomena what early leaders including Joseph Smith called “Lying for the Lord” when they condemned polygamy and embraced monogamy while hiding their illegal involvement in plural marriage by quoting what used to be the 101st section of the D&C. We are even subjected to explanations even though this section was kept in the D&C until 1876 and often quoted by Joseph himself, that it was somehow inserted into the D&C without his approval! These and other denials are accompanied by apologetic explanations very unsatisfying to many of us who want to observe these shocking historical cover-ups in context and without confirmation bias.

    Yes, the faith crisis is real and for very good reason!

    • Steve Lowther says:

      For those who may not be familiar with what used to be D&C 101:

      “Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman….”

      This was in the D&C until 1876 when it was removed and section 132 was inserted.

      • Steve Lowther says:

        Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife;Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again.

        • Nick Galieti says:

          I believe, and the church has declared from its infancy to believe, in continuing revelation. The fact that there were these changes to the D&C regarding polygamy don’t phase me from a doctrinal standpoint because I understand the reasons and purposes for marriage. Marriage is ordained of God when it is done in his way. What is his way? Well, history has shown that to include polygamy at different times. People sometimes act surprised by it, but when it comes to God’s definition of marriage, polygamy is no new thing. Changes will happen, and should happen.

          To give another example. Recently there was a change in the age of male missionaries from 19 to 18. Does that mean that the last prophet who sent young men out at age 19 should be viewed as a fallen prophet, like they got it wrong? No. Does it mean that Our current prophet is uninspired because he changed the age. No. It is just a sign that some of the operations of the church change. God still lives, Jesus is still the Christ, and we still have a living prophet. I personally, don’t begrudge anyone having a faith crisis, but I don’t think that our history as a church is embarassing. It is imperfect, but hardly embarrassing. There were people in the early days of the church that brought many elements of their previous faith and previous social constructs with them into the church. That still happens today.

          I served my mission in the south and found many people doing that were converts that still said “amen” fifty times in the middle of their prayers. That is a very baptist thing to do, and not a very mormon thing to do. So what. It is a part of their history and the culture of the time and place. Some of what you call embarrassing are simply parts of a culture that we didn’t experience. When you understand that not everything that a prophet or apostle says is inspired, you will be able to appreciate Church history for what it is.

          What I can’t seem to understand is why those that are going through a faith crisis seem to hate so much feeling judged for where they are at in their progression, yet they are so unforgiving with the brethren for where they are at in their progression.

  9. Steve Lowther says:

    Many disaffected members object to the label “anti-Mormons”. We often have to endure this hurled epithet in spite of our refraining from using the degrading jargon employed by a minority of critics. Even Nick Galieti in his original post tosses it off casually. It is simply inaccurate.

    I am sure Church members would wince at its use if those who were not members started referring to them as anti-Gentiles.

  10. We’ve been comfortable for a little while and now there is a bit of testing going on. My wife and I are converts to the church. Our children always struggled to find a way to understand polygamy. But there are lots things to doubt any given time. Thats the way it is with religion. We were not present at the crucifixion or the resurrection of Christ, yet, Joseph Smith’s First Vision has reaffirmed the reality and meaning that the Atonement for us, although we were not present at the First Vision either.

    Truth is, that there are many old questions that have been made fresh. I remember finding those answers and then having satisfied my self, set them aside and practically forgot that that they were answered. Mary, the mother of Jesus, had a practice of pondering and keeping in her heart things that she couldn’t fully understand.

    Nevertheless, faithful Mormons learn answers all the time. Is the Book of Mormon the Word of God? Is the church true? YES. Was Joseph Smith a prophet, Yes. What about all this other stuff? “I don’t know, we’ll have to see how that comes out.” My questions are satisfied.

    What Joseph Smith Jr. saw and understood at any given time was the result of his relationship to God and his desire to obey God and see the prophesies fulfilled. That relationship was very personal, and only my business to the extent that he felt he could share some of it with the intent that we might learn doctrine and be accountable for it.

    My experience has been that the answers to doubtful questions are really pretty simple. Have faith anyway and be patient for the answers to come in the due time of the Lord. Then keep them to yourself.

    I have studied some small bit the of Egyptian hieroglyphics and culture, enough not to worry about it. The important thing is that I can fully accept the Pearl of Great Price, even if the Book of the Dead was the referent. There are all sorts of things that lean this way and that. I don’t think it’s my job to straighten it, or steady the arc.

    I’ve noticed that answers given by the Prophet or other General Authorities at times seemed unsatisfying to me, until I had a chance to ponder and came to the conclusion they were the perfect answer that could be given at that time to that audience.

    I figure I can wile away endless hours of speculation or get about the business of being a Latter-Day Saint and my quest to get the full dose of life before my clock runs out.

    • Steve Lowther says:

      Richard, many of us disaffected members refer to your unanswered questions “the shelf” of cognitive dissonance. The “remain patient” advice is well-intentioned, but that shelf does have its limits for most of us. As those who eventually become disaffected know, the only way to keep the shelf safe from collapse is to stop studying and hide from the incredible amount of information that is there in old Church publications. However, that “patience” is yet one more facet of the denial of which we have grown so weary.

      There are some believers who will boast their shelf will never collapse no matter how much cognitively dissonant information is piled on it. In effect, they are boasting about the power of their denial mechanisms, which admittedly can be incredibly resistant to the evidence. If one’s denial of historical evidence becomes a supporting structure of their faith, just how toxic does this faith become?

      Believers believe because it makes them happy. Interesting that believers are convinced that happiness is unobtainable for the disaffected, nor will they believe us when we claim otherwise. It is just not possible within the Gospel paradigm. In fact, after the initial feelings of betrayal and anger have subsided, most disaffected are quite happy with their lives and wonder why they took so long to rid themselves of believers’ baggage.

      In paraphrasing David O McKay’s wise observation about old people knowing move about being young than the young know about being old, the disaffected know a whole lot more about being believers than believers know about being disaffected.

      The disaffected have to put up with a great deal of condescension from active members because they are taught the disaffected are not happy, are deceived by Satan, are spiritually lazy, or any number of other deprecating allusions. Perhaps members don’t mean to be unkind, but this dismissive attitude is not the solution to member disaffection.

      In fact, the amount of anger, condescension, and even outright hate one who is disaffected receives from members first is puzzling, and then just eventually accepted. It seems that Christlike love is a much rarer commodity than one would expect.

      • Michelle says:


        If leaving has made you happy, then I think people should be happy for you. Anger is not right, assumptions about what made you leave is not right.

        But I also don’t think it’s accurate or fair to make assumptions the other direction. 🙂 I think language at some point gets in the way of talking about our personal experiences.

        I’ve had my finger on the pulse of “shelf” issues for well over a decade and a half. For me, the shelf didn’t have to get bigger; the experiences with faith simply have been too strong and too numerous to deny. Were I to go the path you have chosen, *then* I would be in denial.

        I for one respect and understand that questions you have had are real, but so are real answers that keep faith bright for those for whom the experience engaging with our faith ends up with very different results. Everyone has to make his or her own choice about these things.

        • Steve Lowther says:

          Thanks, Michelle, for your very compassionate reply.

          You are right: Assumptions should not be made. You will forgive those of us who are disaffected, however, when after we have experienced a massive amount of scorn and condescension, that we don’t expect your kind of reaction to be typical.

          It indeed is refreshing when your attitude shows up in our lives. I would hope those who have been disaffected can return it in like measure.

  11. Gabriel says:

    Thank you, Nick, for spurring this discussion. Here are my two cents:

    Is doubting the Gospel a fad? I don’t think so. Doubting the Gospel has been en vogue since the Fall of Man, hence the cyclical nature of apostasy and restoration. The Gospel was doubted even when Jesus was teaching it, and many who were His disciples walked away. The Gospel was doubted when the early apostles were left in charge, hence the “great apostasy”. Even in the dawn of this dispensation, the Gospel was often doubted, at times by people who were very “high up”, hence the “Kirtland apostasy” and others. What may be different this time around is the very public dissemination of doubt which range from personal narratives on blogs to entire operations on websites dedicated exclusively to broadcasting doubt. We also live in a time when doubt is celebrated and there is enormous validation from an ever increasingly secular world for those who express doubt at religion.

    Is having a faith crisis a manufactured vehicle that leads to rationalization of sinful practices? For some people it may be. But i think a lot of people who have these crises are very sincere about them. Of course, once you decide that the restored Gospel is a major scam, there is no reason to abide by its principles, unless you can find some other reason to justify abiding by LDS practices (e.g., you no longer believe in the Word of Wisdom but decide to not drink anyway because you would rather not run the risk of having your judgment impaired).

    Is navigating a faith crisis as necessary step to coming to know Jesus Christ and God the Father as is any covenant or ordinance? Again, i think it depends on the individual. For some people, having and overcoming these crises is part of their way back to the presence of Heavenly Father, but i reject the notion that EVERYONE has to enter crisis mode in order to be stronger in their faith. Everyone’s faith gets tested, but it need not be by doubt in the Restoration.

    I would also add that not everyone that is confronted with these ideas (e.g., polygamy, priesthood ban, varying accounts of the First Vision, Book of Abraham questions, etc.) is going to necessarily walk out the door. Thus, while we should be understanding of our brothers and sisters who are feeling their faith under pressure, we should not feel that we too need to doubt. In other words, belief is not any less sincere than doubt.

    For example, in my case there are two reasons why my faith is not shattered by “the shelf”. One is that i was gradually exposed to these ideas over time. For example, i learned about the seer stone and Joseph Smith looking for treasure since my days in seminary. The fact that i learned about them in family and Church settings was helpful. Other things i learned at different times, really spread out, so it didn’t all just drop on me in one fell swoop. But the second reason is to me the most important: my testimony is nourished through experiences with the Spirit from time to time. I can point back to the specific moment in my life when the Spirit washed over me with immense power bearing undeniable testimony of the Book of Mormon. I remember exactly where i was sitting, what i was doing, and how suddenly it came. This was an experience that moved me to the very core. It was such a powerful experience that i cannot simply rationalize it away. It would be too much of stretch for me. Additionally, i have experienced throughout the years other spiritual confirmations, not always as powerful but all very distinct and real, so that i cannot turn away from the restored Gospel, because in so doing i would be denying the footprint of God in my life.

  12. Religious experiences can be intense, dramatic and real. One example illustrating this is from an English production where an atheist induced such an intense, dramatic, and real conversion experience on another atheist. The convert was a stem cell scientist, and the one creating the conversion experience described how he was doing it. He allotted himself 15 minutes and the process was quite remarkable:

  13. I’ve been through a few crises of faith and having come through so far, I think I have learned a few things that I can share in order to cast some light on the matter.

    First, the crisis of faith can be seen as a crucible in which one has to decide which propositions one has previously taken unquestioned are worth really trusting one’s existence to. Sometimes we base our faith on foundations that are not as solid as Christ and having those foundations shaken a bit can help us find our true foundation.

    Is my faith based in the church’s positive image? What if the church is smeared in the media?
    Do I have faith because my life is going according to my plan? What if something happens outside my control that totally diverts my life plan?
    Do I trust because I’m safe and secure? What if I’m suddenly in danger because of my beliefs?
    Do I have faith because I believe church history demonstrates the goodness of the church? What if I find some unsavory things in church history?
    Do I have faith because church doctrine can explain everything? What if I find things that doctrine can’t explain?
    There are all kinds of ways to phrase these questions, but asking a question like one of these that is tailored to the crisis can help us determine where the unsteadiness is coming from.

    Second, the crisis of faith isn’t something that is fixed with platitudes or browbeating from others. People struggling in this kind of thing have to be treated with the same care as though it were a physical illness, with gentleness, with understanding for their weakness, with reassurances that they will pull through, with prayers and fasting, etc. When you’re in it, you have to feed your faith with study and prayer and keep going through the motions even when it is difficult. It feels like a bottomless pit sometimes that you throw everything in it that you can to try to fill it up, and it can get discouraging when the hole isn’t filled up immediately, but you have to be patient and keep reading and studying, keep trying.. Sooner or later you find something that helps. You may not even understand fully why it helps as it does.

    What looks like a crisis of faith may be experimentation with a skeptical perspective. For instance, reading the scriptures so many times, one has to seek new ways of looking at them in order to keep learning, and a skeptical perspective is just one way of many different ways. People who study literature will have learned about Marxist, feminist, historical, psychological, racial, and other perspectives as ways to read a text, but skepticism is yet another. People experiment with this perspective to see if there is something useful to be learned while using it. It is useful to the extent that it allows a person to see through overly simplistic explanations or misrepresentation of the truth. But when applied too broadly, one becomes conscious that one is losing more than one is gaining. That is where the crisis can happen, when one discovers that a perspective has become a habit of thought that is no longer useful or when one finds oneself questioning values that were previously held sacred. I don’t know if you can “come back” to faith if that means never being skeptical again. However, it IS possible to learn to move through skepticism to a deeper faith, though it can be hard. It requires much deeper inquiry to find solid footing again. It is done with many conscious decisions throughout the day—hearing and believing, then being skeptical, then making the decision to believe again and act on that belief.

    We live in an era when information is so plentiful that it is incredibly easy to find information that challenges our beliefs and our faith. Are we willing to put in the work to find information that will build our faith? Are we willing to share what builds our faith so that others may benefit?

    • Gabriel says:

      Michaela, thank you for your keen insights.

      I really appreciate them and value the advice that “People struggling in this kind of thing have to be treated with the same care as though it were a physical illness, with gentleness, with understanding for their weakness, with reassurances that they will pull through, with prayers and fasting, etc.” It is a good reminder that “the rescue” (in Pres. Monson’s parlance) can only take place from a place of love (and thus sincere concern) for our brothers and sisters.

  14. ji says:

    Is what happened in John 6:66 a faith crisis? From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

    I hope I can always have the same answer that Peter shared in the following verses:

    Then said Jesus unto the Twelve, Will ye also go away?
    Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

    To me, the message is not to let the crisis smother the faith — the faith must prevail. When one lets the crisis become dominant, the faith is at risk — but the faith must prevail in order for souls to be saved — it’s a choice each of us has to make. But even way back in the Savior’s day, people fell away.

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